All about Gruen

[Fred]

Not surprising, I’m sure, that I’m also a believer! Another cloaked page in the Gruen book? = another hook that will keep me looking. Mr B., totally get your point on data vs the actual truth. Sounds like something interesting’s a-brewin, too

Snark—can you elaborate on the possible logic? Is it related to the Precision treatment we’ve seen (like “Gruen Precision” becomes “Gruen.Precision.Watch Co”) or something else entirely?

[thesnark]

The logic is that the markings on the movements seem to lag behind changes in advertising focus. This is true for the introduction of the Precision-in-diamond mark based on observations (advertised first in 1911, but first example from 1912, with most examples 1913 or later). It's also true for the later shift to marking Precision on the V4.

It's not any sort of definitive proof, but I speculate there was an essential conservatism in the Swiss factory, and the Eye didn't last long enough to break through it.

[Dietrich]

The lag between advertisements and appearance on movements should be due to the fact that the advertisements are related to the trademark Gruen filed for in the US 1911 and the trademark in Switzerland they filed for in October 1912 had been for the use on the Swiss movements. This is also the reason why I believe that we will not see the diamond in eye trademark on movements. Gruen did not file for this in Switzerland in consequence it should not be used on movements.

[Fred]

Interesting. Thanks guys. So the thinking is, Gruen went to market with ads once concept was approved, not necessarily waiting until marked movements were on hand, then concept changed to Diamond mark. This fits with known we’ve seen. Tbd!

[Fred]

Another example of how messy Gruen can be... here is a serial # 141186 with pre-1909 marks, said to have a Gruen dial in another thread. I cannot read the case, and havent found other case pics, but I see it is 6 digits.

https://mb.nawcc.org/threads/lecoultre-jewelry-cased-1900.140031/post-1086247

[Fred]

…This time--start of 1911--appears to be the full reset of the Verithin product line, including the roll-out of the new St Imier style frame for Precision Verithins. The Precision Diamond and St Imier frame could have come together, with first lots produced & at least a few imported in Q4 1910, for the new year's sales strategy rollout.

We have seen the old Precision markings and movement style (with some small upgrades) continue until the 140,1xx range. Here are the new movements.

# 141,524 (V3, case # 182,548; "March 22, 1912" presentation) - lowest sn I've seen with Precision Diamond; lowest sn seen with the "St Imier" style Precision frame; only one with 1909-1913 Phase 1 tariff markings.
https://mb.nawcc.org/threads/gruen-case-production.84890/post-634683 …

Here is # 141,301 (old style/non-Imier V3). Just sold—for a deal, so congrats if now one of yours! No Precision eye, just old logo on dial and “.Precision.” movement marks. But it does narrow the St Imier style conversion to within 225 movement serial numbers. For simplicity, I’m assuming conversion happened around 141,500.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/256468965843