All about Gruen

[Fred]

I know, I know, totally impractical, but a man can dream big, right?

Your theory makes good sense.

[Mr. Bieser]

Does anyone know when Gruen came out with it's first "integrated bracelet"? And were there ever any men's models with it?
Thanks. Like this.

[Fred]

Late 1950s? Valencia in the 1959 Royal Gems seems to have one. Haven’t seen a mens model

[Dietrich]

Yes, the Valencia may have been the first with integrated mesh band. Before (starting about 1952) there were bangle watches like the Caressables and some others like the 1953 Violet with integrated metal bands.
The pictured watch looks 70ish to me.

[Mr. Bieser]

Appreciate your answers.
Let me quiclky set this next one up. Parts of this we have discussed before but not this exactly.
In 1926 book calibre 612 is 17 jewels.
In the 1939 book 612, 613, and 616 are all listed as 17 jewels.
In 1945 book 616 is listed as 17 jewels.
But I am looking now as I type at a calibre 616 stamped movement with 16 jewels. Nowhere yet in Gruen lit can I find reference to 616 being 16 jewels. Only 17.

My hunch is it's a different calibre. My question is: is it a different calibre? ;}
Is the 16 jewels variation of the 616 actually a seperate calibre number designation? Does 6*16* indicate it is 16 jewels?
Then what's the 17 jewels version called?

[Fred]

Ha, just found your post, unread until I looked up this thread for my own burning question!

Question: when did Gruen pubs stop using “since 1876” and switch to “1874”?

I’ll try to answer yours: for all I’ve seen actually stamped with cal #, all 17j are stamped 612, all 16j stamped 616.

612-613: one OF, other HC. All I’ve seen are stamped “612.” And OF only seen earlier so far (117k Record sn). The lowest Record sn I’ve seen have all been 4adj (several in 117,4xx), then 5adj after 200k sn.

Ironically, the 16j, 4adj cal 616 first appears around the 200k sn, but only it has been seen so far with a “Precision” stamp.

[Mr. Bieser]

The switch from 1876 to 1874 happened in ads in May 1916.

Gosh- just can't figure why Gruen clearly states cal 616 is 17 jewels in numerous documents. Strange, with how concerned Gruen was on accurately reporting the specs, don't think it's a typo either. Oh well. Thanks!

[Fred]

1916? Interesting. I have the back cover of a parts catalog with that 1876 tagline.

And such as it is, yes, there seem to have been some “simplifications” over time in the movement tracking

[Mr. Bieser]

1916? Interesting. I have the back cover of a parts catalog with that 1876 tagline.

And such as it is, yes, there seem to have been some “simplifications” over time in the movement tracking

Yeah I just don't see how it's simpler to report an innaccuracy over decades. I mean seems easier to report 16 jewels bc y'know 6*16*.
My mind is super black & white on this stuff, always a challenge to accept the Gruen gray area of unknown,..imo there must have been a reason.

That's why I put condition on the switch of "in ads"...I'm not sure of the transition in other literature, seemed 1876 lingered for awhile in other sources. A back cover? Where'd ya find that? And if I may ask, what color is it?

[Fred]

Folded up in my 1926 book, behind the price list. I’ll post it.