All about Gruen

[Fred]

I’ve been going through pics… no luck. But I have 2. One is recased in a 3/0 size wristie case. The other is an orphan, setup for pocket watch. That one has a very beefy dust ring/sleeve that takes it up to exactly 0 size/13L. Will post when I can locate them.

Of note, there’s a confirmed Cal 40, which I’ve never seen (or can’t recognize!). Should be the same basic frame? Perhaps different jewel count.

[Mr. Bieser]

Thanks for yr interest & thanks for looking! Perhaps this could be a cal 40 Madretsch 126939. Just a proposal.

[Mr. Bieser]

I have confirmed from another source, Ed Ueberall in NAWCC Bulletin No. 312, February 1998 that both 52 (21j) and 56 (17j) qualified as railroad grade (in Canada) and sometimes seen with dials: "Gruen Special RR Standard".

[Fred]

Great info—and another beauty, there. Very finely finished! Maybe (like Dresden grades) finishing is a caliber differentiator.

[Mr. Bieser]

Great info—and another beauty, there. Very finely finished! Maybe (like Dresden grades) finishing is a caliber differentiator.

Thanks!
May be! Or jewel count, or size, or all three!

Here's one: 127616:

Caliber 50. 16s. 19 and 21 jewels. Extra Precision. This is the 19, note no Extra stamp. 137949. Looks like there is a spacer ring next to this calibre. (Not shown) Interestingly enough the one movement it's not shown for in this fam is cal 45.

[Fred]

Here are a few side by side... I can only call them #2--even though the left-most is a predecessor & different from #2--and say that Gruen shows the second-from-left as Cal. 35 in 1926.

NONE are the same. The closer you look, the more you'll see. I believe these will be different caliber numbers. The left- and right-most are visually closest, to talk about evolution.

[thesnark]

RE: Extra Precision movements.

In 1922, Gruen lowered the definition of Precision to allow the regular V4 grade to qualify. Older Precision models became Extra Precision models. Since none of them were being made anymore in 1922, none of them were marked Extra Precision on the plates.

Gruen remarked somewhere, post-1922, that the Precision in diamond mark means that the watch is Extra Precision. It's a nice way to generalize, but most of these watches predate the use of that mark. In Verithins and wristwatches, it is much more reliable.

The mark Extra on movements actually means that the movement is a level above the ordinary peers in its caliber, i.e. Extra Extra-Precision in post-1922 parlance. It is rare.

[Fred]

Good builds on the Precision "redux" in 1920s.

Hey--I know we're all busy & such, maybe file it away for a rainy day, but I would most grateful if we could have a thread one day to dialog about the various Precision restages before we get into the 1920s. After that one in 1920s there's more documentation, at least! Seems there are at least 4 restages, if we include the one you reference. I know you've researched this lots, but it's scattered hither & thither across the web. Would help one of us (he says selfishly! ) to also have it here.

RE: Extra Precision movements... Gruen remarked somewhere, post-1922, that the Precision in diamond mark means that the watch is Extra Precision...

I'm not recalling seeing this reference, but I have missed lots--and forgotten more! If you come across it, would be helpful to jog my memory.

I'll also propose a second option to interpret 1926 "Extra Precision." The purpose of the book is primarily to help dealers source parts, not identify specific caliber numbers. IMO, this is why we see only one caliber for each Aeby/Madretsch frame. It's a simplification of lots of calibers into a short list that share still-available parts, at least for the many that had long been discontinued. Looking at the part variants in each page, the book seems to cover options for multiple models. So "Caliber 50" page in 1926 could be covering all 16 size 5(x) series, including the Extra Precision 21J Caliber 52 and the non-Extra (but Precision-marked) 21J movements I've seen that match exactly to the 19J one shown in the book.

[Fred]

And I can also be wrong! Here is Cal 50 (or family) # 134829. 19 jewels, OF, Extra Precision. So there was an EP grade.

Since at least 131,200, the 21 jewel movements are marked “21 Jewels”. 19j & 17j remain unmarked.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/166266710857

There was also a 17j version. # 126426 here. Curiously, the pallet cock is other side of balance, towards center of movement.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/144370095586

[Mr. Bieser]

Wait, that's the exact same 19j EP movement 134829 in yr link we already talked about & id'd as cal 52 in this thread, afterall you agreed!
1926 parts book makes it seem like both 21j and 19j are both Extra, true.
Well, it's clear to me atleast, that not everything concerning Gruen Extra, Precision, and Extra Precision has been defined and outlined for different time periods. Goshdarn- what about those pesky references to Gruen Precision Extra?