All about Gruen

[Fred]

10 1/2 Ligne round
Maker: Brandt & Hofmann (Orion)
Period: circa 1921

This is an odd bird, in that I know the maker but have no clue to the Gruen number.

[Mr. Bieser]

Brandt and Hofman? Well, that's a new maker and not a usual suspect! Good work. Where do you guesstimate this fits in the sequence?

[Dietrich]

Appears to be a caliber 140 to me. I have not yet seen a Brandt / Omega movement like this, so I would also be curious why you think that they are the maker of this movement. From numbering scheme it would fit into the Favre sequence.

[Fred]

That’s it—140! Knew I’d seen it. Yes, this is normally the Favre line, and I

No not Louis Brandt/ Omega. Brandt & Hofmann/ Orion, succ of Ferdinand Bachschmid. Guess I’m gonna have to go back through and back it up with a deposit.

For now, here are the big brothers (bottom one made for Concord, note the signature Orion split arrows—actually an anchor—on balance)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/294458995443

[Fred]

Quick followup, I’ve looked through deposits, and I do not have an exact match yet. To complete my sentence above…

Yes, this is normally the Favre line, and I am open to the possibility that Favre did supply it from an Orion ebauche: it’s missing the usual Orion balance cock mark.

[Fred]

10 1/2 Ligne round
Maker: Brandt & Hofmann (Orion)
Period: circa 1921

There may be another, earlier connection to this firm’s predecessor, Ferdinand Bachschmid. Check out this “77” mark on an old Columbus movement.

Bachschmid (alt spelling Bachschmidt) was also involved in the liquidation of the original Aeby firm in 1890.

[Fred]

Before this sends us too far sideways, I can say the Bachschmid lead for Columbus is likely false. He was specialized in Roskopf watches at the time (1879-1883). Also, was in CDF until 1880, opening Bienne office.

[Mr. Bieser]

Please clarify, I've never noticed that anchor mark before on the Columbus, whose is it? Ferdinand Bachschmid? What's the 77 mean? What year is the movement from?

[Fred]

A few with this mark have surfaced, 1-2 to be seen in other forums. No one has positively explained the mark nor its meaning, although Barney once theorized in a thread that “77” could refer to the year of the caliber introduction or production. 1877 is thought to be the approximate time of these movements, with “Gruen’s Improved Patent Safety Pinion”. The thinking seems to be, this is US157913 (granted 12/20/1874) coming to life. But I have not researched Columbus movements in detail.

While this “77” mark’s anchor is close to that in his (later) mark, it isn’t exactly it. So the mark remains tbd. In addition to Roskopf stuff, Bachschmid made high end components & machines for them. He was the successor of P F Ingold, and his work and machines for Ingold Fraise train wheels (best of best) won him awards. Just sharing crumbs, which may or may not lead anywhere in future.